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  • Snivystorm
    Snivystorm closed this thread because:
    Necroed
    21:28, August 18, 2018

    Who believes the Fireflies are a good organization? Their intentions seemed to have been good, but are they really the "good" guys? If a vaccine was created, who thinks that they may have used the vaccine to manipulate people and gain power over the situation?

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    • There are no "good guys nor bad guys" in The Last of Us.

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    • like Btgr said 'There are no "good guys nor bad guys" in The Last of Us.'  but what i think is that they have good intentions. i.e finding the cure for the infection but killing alot of people in the process. So yeah there are no bad people in it.... basicly said the very same thing as him but yeah... 

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    • Btgr is right, there are no good guys or bad guys.

      Just people trying to survive.

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    • Im agreed Ceased 2 Exist. There are only people that survive from the apocalypse. Theres only the law of "the strong lives,the weaks dead".

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    • I didn't mean for people to take me saying "good guys" literally. Btgr didn't answer my question. No one really did. My question was to get you guys thinking about whether the intentions of the Fireflies were for the best of civilization or whether it was to manipulate people. So what do you guys think? Throughout the game we're made to believe that finding the Fireflies will answer all of our questions and will provide an answer for civilization to regain stability. But we see in the end that in a desperate attempt to find a vaccine, they put Ellie under the knife, willing to kill her and sacrifice her, for a vaccine that may not work. But regardless it was unethical to sacrifice someone without their consent. Which makes me believe that the Fireflies intentions may be good, but that they're manipulative and cynical at the same time. And that even if they did create a vaccine that somehow they would use it to gain control over people. What do you guys think? And stop bashing me for saying "good guys." That wasn't the point of my question, lol..

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    • the game basically teach you that, what you thought was bad might be actually good, and vice-versa depends on the fact known etc. human thinking are easily manipulated.

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    • I go with neutral.

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    • The only true villian in this game is David. Every other group is at least somewhat sympathetic. 

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    • The Last of Us shows us not people that are trying to survive. It shows us how people can change in that process and what borders we are going to cross if something like that happens.

      Humanity is pushed back and all moral norms have changed. People are desperate and the only way they can survive is the way they see right for them. 

      Although I think killing one another in the unlikely event of an apocalypse is total bullshit that shouldn't even be considered, I will kill to survive if someone else is trying to kill me.

      Fireflies kill a lot of people trying to find a cure... if they kill every damn person on the planet they won't have people to cure afterwards.

      Hunters kill just for the sake of their own asses (pardon my rude language) and they don't give anyone else a chance but their own people.

      The military - yes, they are a bit like tyrants but they try to keep order and somewhat keep people safe but at what price... They take away what's most precious about a human being and all living things - freedom. They make more borders than people can endure and they try to keep others at bay using force. They might keep people safe but people are no longer people just a group of cattle gathered together in one spot being controled by the "strong".

      David's group... well... every man deserves a chance and place amongst others but I don't think his group needs any discussing... All moral norms, beliefs, feelings understandings for life have been totally damaged. Going so far as to star eating other humans... well... in my eyes he is a "bad guy"...

      We haven't been involved in such an apocalypse so non of us could say how our moral norms could change during the period of survival but one thing is for sure: everything is subjective and every person sees things differently. I might not have pointed out the right things for every group but that is just because I am using my own point of view and how I perceive the things I see in the game.

      The Last of Us is truly a game with a story that will make you rethink your own decisions and morality but the truth is there is no such thing as "good guy/bad guy", not even in real life. Those are just concepts created by humans and we only accept them depending on what morals we follow.

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    • ^ I really love your comment, you sum it all up. Well done. :)

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    • ^Thank you! I appreciate it :)

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    • There is a lot of ambiguity throughout the game and I think the factions are part of it. The military tried protecting its people by creating quarantine zones but at the same time they deprived the people of food and supplies and catered to themselves first (abusing their power and such). The Fireflies seemed to have good intentions but just going around and attacking the quarantine zones full of innocent people just because the military was there? That wasn't very proactive. The way the Fireflies wanted to kill Ellie and took her choice away by putting her under anesthesia to die during surgery? That's pretty wicked. And they did that because they were tired of waiting because they were losing members. They wanted their efforts to mean something, I get it, but to throw away their integrity just to "get it over with?" That's deplorable as well. I know this is a random tangent but I really wish the Firefly organization was explained more. I know we have the wikia to fill in the gaps but I wish the game talked about it more. 

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    • Well, two years late but I figured I'd put in my 2 cents. Concerning the Fireflies, no, they probably wouldn't have manipulated the population unless Marlene (let's say she wasn't killed) had stepped down from leder. Also, Ellie would have wanted to die, Marlene stated that and Joel knew it. Ellie also hinted that she would have been willing to die at the end of the game when she made Joel "promise" to her that he hadn't lied. Another thing is, according to the Firefly scientists, the cure was already proven to be 100% possible and all they needed was to give Ellie the knife. Call me pro-Firefly, but I see them as one of the more noble organizations. (And probably the only...)

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    • Ceased 2 Exist wrote:
      Btgr is right, there are no good guys or bad guys.

      Just people trying to survive.


      The same goes for war, which the Firefllies and military are fighting.

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    • Like a lot of revolutionary organisations, the Fireflies started off with good intentions and their initial leadership had good goals. The problem was that, with time, the struggle and the power structures that they had created for themselves became more important to them than the ultimate goal. It stopped about being liberators and started being about becoming the new oppressors (as the people of Pittsburgh began to realise as the day of their planned 'liberation' grew closer).

      In the end, the organisation became as amoral as FEDRA, being all about getting and maintaining power. Even the vaccine would have been just another weapon to use to force the remains of the United States of America to swear fealty to the Firefly flag.

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    • If you were going to say any faction was the "Good Guy" then it'd have to be the Fireflies. They're the only faction that tries to change how society is, unlike fedra, the military, the hunters and tommy, who just accept this is the way life will be, and try to survive. The fireflies TRY to change society for the better, and that's what makes them the "Good Guy."

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    • I think I know what you are getting at. In almost any other game, we'd be playing as one of the Fireflies and fighting for the cure to the plague. And in that instance, Joel could be a "bad guy" and we would be the "good guys." It is normal that we identify with the character we are playing. Which is why it is so mind blowing when you are playing a character like Joel or even James Sunderland in Silent Hill 2. Good and bad are frames of reference

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    • I struggled with this at the end too. I tend to admire righteous rebellions and frequently get tattoos representing these groups (rebel alliance in star wars, browncoats in Firefly, etc.) I already had it in my head to get one for the fireflies half way through the game, but when I finished, they left a bad taste in my mouth and egg on my face.

      However, after over a year of thinking about it, this is my conclusion: moral relativism aside, in the beginning the Fireflies we're absolutely 100% righteous in their motives. Especially their goal to give the power of government back to the people. My main rub with them is how they we're going to kill her without even telling her or giving her a choice. They didn't respect her autonomy as a person. But, the Fireflies at the end had mostly been killed. They were battleworn and beaten. And they started letting my hair nice alien cloud their judgment. This happens to any faction in a long drawn out war. So while I consider their actions at the end to be unacceptable, it doesn't take away their righteous origins.

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    • Btgr wrote: There are no "good guys nor bad guys" in The Last of Us.

      Joel: "I have been on both sides..." Henry: "...they are not the bad guys"

      But the Hunters are bad tho, according to Joel and Henry

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    • Remember, survival of the fittest. There are NO good guys or bad guys. You do what you gotta do in order to survive.

      Lets just give the Fireflies this. They tried to change things and give things. They tried to create a vaccine.

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    • 174.103.225.133 wrote:
      Remember, survival of the fittest. There are NO good guys or bad guys. You do what you gotta do in order to survive.

      But that's the thing. The Fireflies explicitly presented themselves as the good guys; the 'saviours'. They have less excuse than most for not living up to their own high-sounding ideals.

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    • I personally view as this:

      Joel = anti-hero, Tommy = hero, Fireflies = anti-villain, Hunters = generic villains

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    • I agree, however it is unusual.in the end they joel brought ellie to the fireflie yet they still attacked him.also they waited untill joel grew a relationship with ellie to tell him that they bhave to kill her.the result was marleans death.jeol knows now that he posses a threat to the private militia, and could use ellie as a way to get to him.

      but no matter what I would say there good, these things killed my daughter so lets get revenge by doing what ever it takes.hell, if it means saving the world i'd join the fireflies.if they wantyed to manipulate people they would have already done,THINK, a private army funded and supplied by the government.it's pretty obvious that there good, but things get in there way and they have to take care of those things by any means neccacary, thats what makes them bad but soon in the last of us 2, everyone will calm down and there won't be any more killing and things will go back to normal but better(stop whatever cause the infection before it comes back b/c we don't kno what caused it???, only that it mutates and spores cause it to travel) but it's what ever

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    • I don't know. I can't help but wonder if Ellie's vendetta is against the Fireflies due to some mistreatment of her mother.

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    • 2600:1007:B120:2308:2D97:EACC:C79A:37DC wrote: [...] if they wantyed to manipulate people they would have already done,THINK, a private army funded and supplied by the government. [...]

      One thing: the Fireflies were formed in response to FEDRA/the military taking over control of the US government. Nowhere is it said that they were/are funded or supplied by them.

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    • 24.247.138.52 wrote:
      The only true villian in this game is David. Every other group is at least somewhat sympathetic. 

      I don't agree, in addition to the cannibals being a bunch of bastards, the hunters were pricks, the military was tyrannical, the smugglers were jerks, the bandits were a nuisance and the fireflies were a bunch of crackpots. Tommy's group living at the dam was the only group that seemed real good and MAYBE the survivors at Joel's quarantine zone in Boston though the latter can be questionable at times.

      Here's my reasons for each group I mentioned being a bunch of assholes.

      Cannibals: 

      Let's see ate people, had a sex offender for a leader, chastised Joel for "Wahh Whah, killing his friends." even though they attacked first and that's pretty much it.

      Hunters: 

      Okay these guys were fucking sadists, I mean they had an armed humvee that had a "RUN" sign in place of the license plate and a DEAD BODY strapped to the hood by ropes for crying out out!  They didn't just do "Hurr durr, what they had to to survive." they were monsters about it! Also the sniper was taunting Joel like a school bully while trying to kill his ass. Also they didn't even get a long with each other.

      I mean one guy was like "Your shooting sucks." and the other guy said "I'll shoot you if you keep insulting me about it." and then the third guy offered to give lessons (which would be a big help and should warrant appreciation) but then the first guy told him to shut up.

      Then you have two morons arguing over 25 FUCKING cans of bacon. One guy was all, "Give me some of that!" and then the other was like "Why bro?" and then the first guy said "Because I saved your life and if you're not going to give me any then I should've let you die back there!" and then finally the second guy was like "FINE! I'll give you some if you stop bringing that up." 

      You fuckers are one big happy family aren't you? :/

      The Military:

      These guys, horded people's rations, gave the residents chores they shouldn't have given them, ignored or even punish criticism, were rough on people, etc. 

      These guys sucked.

      The Smugglers: 

      Yeah these guys, fuck them. Robert screwed over Joel and Tess (withholding their guns and attacking Tess) and was a huge DICK even to his own men, not paying them when he should've. He deserved two pieces of lead in him when they caught up.

      The Bandits:

      Yeah these guys really slaughterd Tom's community so I don't like them.

      The Fireflies:

      Yeah them sacrificing Ellie wasn't cool especially the fact that it was probably pointless. 

      So yeah Tommy's group makes sense everybody else is prick pretty much.

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    • yeah

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