Talk:Joel Miller

Joel's birthday

October 1 st a libra FYI this is terrie Giroux from vb you say your watch is broke the nice one your dad gave you a Rolex get it fixed rip Irving my bd is in June let's go walk on the beach some time tell me about all your marriages lol I have never married I want my Oreo cookie back what a sweet proposal :) hope it's u and I have finally found you ohhh and I would like my virginity back please thanks Joel's birthday is the 26th of september, according to the newspaper Sarah finds in the bathroom. Ash Crow (talk) 16:07, June 23, 2013 (UTC)

Joel's birthday is actually unknown, be it as it may that the newspaper was published on September 26th, that doesn't necessarily mean it was published on his birthday, we can only assume it is in the month. (REfreakk5555 (talk) 05:00, September 23, 2013 (UTC))

I think his age doesn't really fit. At the start of the game he looks to be in his mid thirties, not a guy in his late twenties. Also, it means that his daughter would have been born when he was in his mid teens (not to mention that he also married then), not impossible, but quite young.. It seems the creators of this game didn't really paid much attention to details when it comes to the appearance & age of a person. 80.126.138.75 10:50, February 11, 2014 (UTC)

I would like to point out, using a person's appearance isn't an accurate way to tell their age, emotional stress and just stress in general can make a person look older than they are, and the pressures of being a teenage parent alongside a possible divorce/other occurrence with his wife would have likely caused enough stress to make him look older than he actually is.TPShadowDragon ^{Born into flame!} 17:40, February 11, 2014 (UTC)

His age fits perfectly. At the University, Ellie asks if Joel ever went to college, and he replies that he wanted to but didn't because he had Sarah at a really young age. In the U.S. most people transition straight from high school to college at the age of 18-19. So he must have had her while still in high school. Furthermore, the official website lists his age during the events of the game as his late 40's, making him no older than 49 during TLOU. 20 years passed after the death of Sarah and the events of the game. Sarah was 12 when she was killed. So 49 - 20 - 12 = 17 which would be the oldest he would have have been when his girlfriend/wife gave birth. (14 at the youngest which in the South where teen pregnancies are more prevalent is too common.)

As for Joel marrying his wife at such a young age, that's common for teens who face an unplanned pregnancy as a moral and financial obligation, especially in a deeply religious and conservative state such as Texas. Texas allows minors as young as 16 to marry if they have parental consent or are emancipated.

Going back his birthday, a newspaper found in his home The Texas Herald is dated September 26th.  His birthday being Sept. 26th is backed up by The Last of Us developer Mark Richard Davies who sent this tweet. The September newspaper, Halloween Superstore at Liberty Gardens Mall, Twitter Twitter Alternate Reality Game, and this blog post by Lead Writer and Creative Director Neil Druckmann correlate that the outbreak occurred during Fall 2013. So if we do the math, we come to the conclusion that he was born on September 26th, between the years 1984-1987.--The Youth Counselor (talk) 07:27, March 12, 2014 (UTC)

Thank the Anon from karto

I salute the Anon no name who pointed out the ending was reminiscent to the beginning with Joel carrying both girls.

I never saw that before, you should make an account.

Karto2287 (talk) 19:14, June 25, 2013 (UTC)

Anon 58.160.154.42

He has been adding spam to this page and even dleting it at one point

Birthday confirmed?

I was searching around Twitter and found this tweet from a few hours ago.

https://twitter.com/Ninjafr4me/status/383250800517980161

While it's probably nothing it's still interesting to see this tweet, before I do anything I wanted to see what you guys thought about it. Considering it's the 26th and it even says "Happy birthday Joel" should we take this into account?TPShadowDragon ^{Born into flame!} 22:17, September 26, 2013 (UTC)

?

Tommy looks to old ,for the descriptionFanofwiki (talk) 10:14, February 15, 2014 (UTC) "raised" by Joel,,,,,

Joel's age

I think his age is completely wrong (or hardly believable).

We all know his daughter had 12 years and 20 years have passed from her death to the beginning of the adventure and he is in his late '40.

Now, assuming Joel is at the maximum age allowed by the definition of late '40, 49 years old, he should have had his daughter when he was: 49-20-12=17 years old.

Not impossible, but very highly uncommon.

If he had a child at least at the """" more common"""" age of 25 he would be: (25+12+20)=57 years old at minimum, making him too old for what he does during the game and more importantly too old to sell the game to us potential buyers (just imagine Tomb Rider with an almost 60 years old Lara Croft)

I know it is wrong to judge a man's age by his look, but if he had Sarah while being 17 he should have 29 years at the beginning of the game, and fml if I will ever look like him at that age.

But if he was at least 25 years old when Sarah was born and consequently be >36 years old at the very beginning of the game, it would have been a perfect combination of look+age ( but again too old to act as he does during the rest of game).

The point is: animations companies from all around the world are making their fictional characters with impossible bodies for their ages( i'm looking at you, Japan, and the sadly following Western countries) just because younger heroes sell better.

We don't like to play as an old man, but we can easily accept a 13-years-old girl love story with another young girl (men, that was wonderfully epic and I hope somebody has learned from it that love can not know gender; but still it has slightly shocked me when after I finished playing tlou and tlou:lb I remembered that she was 13 y-o) ( you know, at that age I was busy playing Crash Bandicoot or football, or throwing insects at girls)

In the end the game is a masterpiece independently from Joel's age, I just wonder why they forced his age this much when they could have just said "Sarah is 9 years old, the waiting time is 18 years (instead of 20) so to have a more acceptable 31 y-o Joel with a child and a 49 y-o (AT MAXIMUM) Joel punching people and killing infected with his bare hands.

Andry06 (talk) 16:42, March 9, 2014 (UTC)

Well, Joel did say that he had Sarah when he was young, so 17 would work. Having a kid that young is not as uncommon as you would think, especially since Sarah was unplanned. Naughty Dog has said that Joel is in his late 40's, so we're going with that.  M67PattonZippo (talk) 17:55, March 9, 2014 (UTC)

The United States leads the developed world with the highest teen pregnancy rates. This is especially high in the South, where Joel, Sarah, and Tommy reside.--The Youth Counselor (talk) 08:01, March 12, 2014 (UTC)

Joel May Be in His 50's

Joel states that he never went to college because he had Sarah at a young age. This could mean that he was possibly as old as 18 when he had Sarah. She's thirteen which means he could've been 31 in the Prologue. Add 20 years and he's 51. I suggest we change his age to mid 40's-early 50's.Zorskel (talk) 21:41, August 7, 2014 (UTC)Zorskel

Edit: Did Naughty Dog really confirm that Joel was in his late 40's, And Sarah as 12? Could've sworn I found out somewhere that she was 13. Anyway, Joel's birthday passed during the game so he could be 50 at the end.

From the here it read for Joel, "A brutal survivor with few moral lines left to cross. Joel, now in his late 40s, has been hardened by the ravages of the fungal pandemic that has devastated civilization as we know it. He’s lost friends, family, and everything he valued in life. Living in one of few remaining military-controlled quarantine zones, he operates as a black market smuggler, dealing in contraband, taking numerous de-humanizing jobs over the years to survive in this new post-pandemic world. Joel’s conscience slowly dwindles away as he shuts down his emotions to cope to his new life." TPShadowDragon ^{Born into flame!} 23:52, August 7, 2014 (UTC)

Joel x ??? Shipping

So, as the chief writer of the game wrote that stage epilogue, should we aspiring fan-fiction writers consider Joel x Esther to be a 'thing' for post-game stories?

FWIW, I like the look of that epilogue and I hope someone has the bright idea of releasing it as a patch for the end of Left Behind; I think it would go a long way to explaining Joel's motivations and his feelings towards Ellie. If she can at least understand why he did what he did, she'll be on the first steps to forgiving him.

BenRG - Not sure if he dreads or longs for Episode VII (talk) 20:44, August 8, 2014 (UTC)

Joel's Surname

Should Joel's surname be added to the page title? I certainly think that it should be on the Info Box.

BenRG - Not sure if he dreads or longs for Episode VII (talk) 14:04, August 16, 2015 (UTC)

I wouldn't, because Neil stated they were scrapped a long time ago during REALLY early development documents. http://www.tumbleweedgames.com/ama.html  Riley Heligo ^{The Forgotten Sinner} 14:48, August 16, 2015 (UTC)

Riley is right, although, you can put "Joel Miller" under the Other names section of the infobox and mention that it is non-canon, not official, or something along those lines. NinjaFatGuy (talk) 15:35, August 16, 2015 (UTC)

Infoxbox image

Alrighty, so I'm formally bringing up changing Joel's infobox image here. Given he only wears the Fall clothes once, is a tad dark and the fact the image wasn't taken from an in game cutscene, I propose we change it to one that is. I've provided three candidates below though they aren't the best; 3 is a tad too closeup, 2 has the distracting glare and 1 is a tad dark and has the pause distraction. However, 3 is facing the article (always a win) and 1 provides a wide enough shot that it is clear who Joel is. Plus, in all three, he has his Summer attire on, which is what most people relate him to. Thoughts you guys? Snivystorm (talk) 08:49, July 3, 2017 (UTC)

#1

#2

#3

I'd much rather renders be utilised than applicable, it's not that dark if anything the contrast needs to be adjusted which I can do when I've got the time. I believe the final point about people "relating" to him is a bit of a poor reasoning for such a change. As well as the fact you're mentioning "facing the article" is a win, I've never seen anyone be so insistent on such perspective for a Wikia, so I'm not really convinced as well. I can understand if their face was barely in shot but to say it's facing the article? Tad bit...off. If anything an infobox image should have the character's face in the centre or even partially angled, not half their face.

The issue with utilising screenshots from a game without properly rendering it can result in compression of the image if taken from external sources such as YT. And even then, people may try and replace it with their own ones what may or may not have better quality, with a render it's a neutral ground as it may come off as being favouritism if we use a specific screenshot when someone may have gone through a lot of effort to get one. Daimyo Heligo ^{The Forgotten Sinner} 10:11, July 3, 2017 (UTC)

I was just following general wikia guidelines regarding an image's quality; facing the article is preferred to them facing away etc. Although, every wiki does have their own preferences. The images I've suggested have not come from YouTube, but directly from the game itself, if that changes anything. The whole favouritism point is why we have discussions like this to decide on the best image possible; someone tries to change the image without first debating it here isn't really desired, hence why we are now having this discussion. Also, what exactly are this wikis general guidelines for an infobox image; I'm struggling to find them?Snivystorm (talk) 11:54, July 3, 2017 (UTC)

I was using YouTube as an example not trying to indicate they are from YouTube. I don't think there is a set image policy as long as they're suitable images, as I said I'd much more prefer a render than a screenshot from the game itself, I'll see what I can do in regards to the current renders and see if I can't make them more vibrant which I'm confident I can. Daimyo Heligo ^{The Forgotten Sinner} 17:13, July 3, 2017 (UTC)

It's all good. If we don't have a set guideline, perhaps we should make one then, so we all have a better idea of what is a suitable infobox image and what isn't. Snivystorm (talk) 17:32, July 3, 2017 (UTC)

Joel's height

Joel's height was officially revealed by a former ND empolyee on Twitter He's 1,82. Mizunoryu (talk) 18:30, October 17, 2017 (UTC)

If you mean 1.82 meters, that's about 6 feet for us non-metric users.  M67PattonZippo (talk) 22:45, October 17, 2017 (UTC)

Yes, that's what I meant. Mizunoryu (talk) 03:02, October 18, 2017 (UTC)